Yet more random thoughts... put 'em here

ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
But you as an individual can chose wether or not to do that job.
I don't think you're going to find any engineering folks who find designing emissions controls to be "objectinable" enough to walk away from a job.

In both cases, it was snowy / icy
As I recall, I was quite happy to extend my stay in Baytown that evening, as it was really ****ty out with temperatures below freezing.

But, Werner is a mega with a mission, and poorly trained seatmeat to boot. If anyone shouldn't have been on the road, it was the idjit 4-wheeler, but the seatmeat should have had the option of shutting down too.
 

r3gulator3

FLATBED GANGSTER
Supporter
I don't think you're going to find any engineering folks who find designing emissions controls to be "objectinable" enough to walk away from a job.
And I’m not debating that either. Simply put the politicians made the law, the engineer designed it. It wasn’t simply one or the other it took both.
 

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
In the Texas case, they were at the beginning of an ice storm, and Werner had coerced a low-time team on a JIT run, to press on, just before the accident. Probably doesn't resemble what happened in N. Dakota.
I don't care if it was a solo driver on cocaine-fueled LA-Miami non - stop, once that car crossed the median, it's on them unless the truck hits them after they've stopped. "He shouldn't have been there" is a bullshit excuse who's sole purpose is to extract money from an innocent party for one's own ****up!
This is akin to sueing the guy you landed on after you fell from a balcony.

Tort Reform NOW! 😡
 

ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
I don't care if it was a solo driver on cocaine-fueled LA-Miami non - stop, once that car crossed the median, it's on them unless the truck hits them after they've stopped. "He shouldn't have been there" is a bullshit excuse who's sole purpose is to extract money from an innocent party for one's own ****up!
This is akin to sueing the guy you landed on after you fell from a balcony.

Tort Reform NOW! 😡
Aka, you want to be able to do any damn thing you want with no accountability regardless of the outcome.
 

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
Aka, you want to be able to do any damn thing you want with no accountability regardless of the outcome.
Holy Crap, IP! That's a stretch, even for you!

The obvious point (that everyone else likely grasped) is that it doesn't matter why that driver was there, the car lost control and crossed the median into his path. How that driver arrived at that point of time and space is irrelevant!
 

Duck

Custom title
Supporter
And I’m not debating that either. Simply put the politicians made the law, the engineer designed it. It wasn’t simply one or the other it took both.
The engineer would never have designed pointless, unnecessary garbage if the politicians didn't make it a requirement.

The politicians put it there. The engineers (and the peons on the assembly lines) were just the means.
Aka, you want to be able to do any damn thing you want with no accountability regardless of the outcome.
That's nowhere even close to what he said.
 

ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
Holy Crap, IP! That's a stretch, even for you!

The obvious point (that everyone else likely grasped) is that it doesn't matter why that driver was there, the car lost control and crossed the median into his path. How that driver arrived at that point of time and space is irrelevant!
If you even bothered to follow the original case, you'd see that the jury was upset at Werners business model - for ing poorly trained, inexperienced drivers out on roads that were hazardous for even experienced drivers.

You're not going to claim you want to drive on ice covered highways are you?
 

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
If you even bothered to follow the original case, you'd see that the jury was upset at Werners business model - for ing poorly trained, inexperienced drivers out on roads that were hazardous for even experienced drivers.

You're not going to claim you want to drive on ice covered highways are you?
Firstly, nice "have you stopped beating your wife?" question.

Secondly, in your normal obtuse manner, you insist on dragging a discussion off into the weeds, rather than address the core issue.

So the jury didn't like how Warner treated their drivers, who f****** cares!? Because that jury awarded damages in that case, every one of us is now in the position of possibly being sued for somebody else's dumb-ass mistake, merely because we existed at a certain point in time and place.

Tort reform, now!
 

ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
Firstly, nice "have you stopped beating your wife?" question.

Secondly, in your normal obtuse manner, you insist on dragging a discussion off into the weeds, rather than address the core issue.

So the jury didn't like how Warner treated their drivers, who f****** cares!? Because that jury awarded damages in that case, every one of us is now in the position of possibly being sued for somebody else's dumb-ass mistake, merely because we existed at a certain point in time and place.

Tort reform, now!
Everyone else (trucks) was already off the road. What part of major winter ice storm don't you comprehend?
 

Electric Chicken

Jock
Supporter
Everyone else (trucks) was already off the road. What part of major winter ice storm don't you comprehend?
Was the road closed to all trucks at the time?

If not, driving in inclement weather is 100% a judgement call and as long as the driver is in control of the their vehicle at the time of the accident by the other party, they should not be accountable in any way whatsoever.
 

ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
I seriously hope your playing devils advocate here.
Partially.

As I understand it, it was a JIT load with a major performance penalty for late delivery. The team wanted to stop, like everyone else had at this point. These ice storms are no joke. Dispatch toldthem to go, or face termination. Werner isn't exactly a good corporate actor - or do you believe the propaganda on their trailers about how their move to electronic logging was their "good buddy" favor to their drivers?

It should have been the drivers call.

I do have a problem with corporate irresponsibility in this industry.

Was the road closed to all trucks at the time?

If not, driving in inclement weather is 100% a judgement call and as long as the driver is in control of the their vehicle at the time of the accident by the other party, they should not be accountable in any way whatsoever.
Texas never closes their highways. They just wait until the wreckage makes the decision for them.

The winter storm warning had been out all day, and EVERYONE had shutdown early to get into a parking place before there weren't any. There was a 1/4" of ice on all the side roads, and I slipped getting from the TA to my truck. By the time this little drama occured, I-10 was a skating rink, and there were accidents west of Houston.

It was pretty obvious that an irresponsible carrier had coerced a pair of new drivers to continue in hazardous conditions, despite them telling the dispatcher what a bad idea it was.

This little argument isn't new. We had it at the time.
 

Electric Chicken

Jock
Supporter
Would I have parked it?

Probably. And if I'm already home I don't go out in the first place. Why? Because of stupid lawsuits like this. Not because of an inability to drive in it.
 

Electric Chicken

Jock
Supporter
Partially.

As I understand it, it was a JIT load with a major performance penalty for late delivery. The team wanted to stop, like everyone else had at this point. These ice storms are no joke. Dispatch toldthem to go, or face termination. Werner isn't exactly a good corporate actor - or do you believe the propaganda on their trailers about how their move to electronic logging was their "good buddy" favor to their drivers?

It should have been the drivers call.

I do have a problem with corporate irresponsibility in this industry.


Texas never closes their highways. They just wait until the wreckage makes the decision for them.

The winter storm warning had been out all day, and EVERYONE had shutdown early to get into a parking place before there weren't any. There was a 1/4" of ice on all the side roads, and I slipped getting from the TA to my truck. By the time this little drama occured, I-10 was a skating rink, and there were accidents west of Houston.

It was pretty obvious that an irresponsible carrier had coerced a pair of new drivers to continue in hazardous conditions, despite them telling the dispatcher what a bad idea it was.

This little argument isn't new. We had it at the time.
You still can't put it on the driver for simply existing in a particular space. Unless he actually lost control to become a participant, there's no fault.

And yet our sick twisted society has found fault just because of deep pockets and lack of personal responsibility.
 

ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
Would I have parked it?

Probably. And if I'm already home I don't go out in the first place. Why? Because of stupid lawsuits like this. Not because of an inability to drive in it.
You've never been in a serious ice storm with a.stupid answer like that. You cant drive on a highway that's 100% covered in ice.
 
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