What's up with the (lack of) winterized diesel fuel this winter season? (2017/2018)

r3gulator3

Friendly Neighborhood Former Technician
Staff member
Supporter
Okay so that is why Detroit's suck now. I used to drive a Detroit 60 series because the company I drove for delivered to Detroit Diesel.
Awesome engines and awesome plant to deliver to.

Mercedes are ****!
The engines are still assembled there. Dd15 would be a great engine if they pulled the emissions off. We got one in at our dealership that was headed to South Africa. You wanna talk about power....it was impressive.
 

Rigjockey

In Gord we trust!
Supporter
The engines are still assembled there. Dd15 would be a great engine if they pulled the emissions off. We got one in at our dealership that was headed to South Africa. You wanna talk about power....it was impressive.
All of the engines where great before emissions!
Cat ( my favorite) pulled out before all this crap came down the pike.
Some say it is because they could not meet emissions, others say it was because they would not play that game:dunno:
 

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
Supporter
The engines are still assembled there. Dd15 would be a great engine if they pulled the emissions off. We got one in at our dealership that was headed to South Africa. You wanna talk about power....it was impressive.
That's probably true for any of these modern engines. Adjust the injection timing for power instead of emmisions, with the way they can shape the injection pulses? ZOOM! ZOOM!
 

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
Supporter
All of the engines where great before emissions!
Cat ( my favorite) pulled out before all this crap came down the pike.
Some say it is because they could not meet emissions, others say it was because they would not play that game:dunno:
The truck market was a tiny part of Cat's global market, they simply couldn't justify the cost at their market share. The last of the E-models were absolute beasts, as were the original 14L S-60 and the last of the N-14s.
 

r3gulator3

Friendly Neighborhood Former Technician
Staff member
Supporter
All of the engines where great before emissions!
Cat ( my favorite) pulled out before all this crap came down the pike.
Some say it is because they could not meet emissions, others say it was because they would not play that game:dunno:
Cat made an attempt, they called it ARD . The ARD head had a giant spark plugs in it and basically created a flame thrower behind the turbo to burn out the DPF. And burn it did. It would burn so hot it would crack the brick in the DPF. The ARD heads were temperamental and you would replace all related components annually. They sold their block design from the C-15 to Navistar and the Maxxforce 13 was born. Cat not wanting to be out of the truck market made an agreement with Navistar and made a CAT baged truck, which was really a prostar with a different hood badged CAT and the Maxxforce 13 was called a CAT CT660. That didn't last long either. Navistar is still settling law suits for that engine and now you can buy any international product with a Cummins engine.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
Did the math and I've for about 33% DF 1 in the truck.

It's now parked and turned off until Monday morning.

So we'll see how it does then..
Screenshot_20180112-204219.png
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
Original forecast on Thursday called for -14 on Sunday.

I have to deliver the load I've got on, get some warranty work looked at on Monday and then it gets parked until 1/29.


It would appear, I don't have enough #1
 

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r3gulator3

Friendly Neighborhood Former Technician
Staff member
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Original forecast on Thursday called for -14 on Sunday.

I have to deliver the load I've got on, get some warranty work looked at on Monday and then it gets parked until 1/29.


It would appear, I don't have enough #1
Interesting, so riddle me this. I buy pump fuel from pilot. At best in the right location I'm getting 20% and I'm putting additive in it. Which by that card s good to -9

How am I still normally operating the truck at-23?
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
Your fuel is heated.

I will normally never have issues once I leave.

It's always the first morning I leave and everything has been shut down for 3+ days and well below zero.

Bringing everything back up to temp.

Army taught me to never memorize anything. Always have references and sources for your information. Probably what pisses so many people off when I answer a question. Or why I rarely ask questions. Because I always looks for actual sources first and that generally answers my questions rather quickly. Also to always confirm someone else's source. @r3gulator3 sound familiar?

So I've got sheets and tables like this fuel blend scattered all over creation and on my Electronics.

All this sheet did was create more questions for me. I figured like @Hammer166 I'd have been good to -20 or below. It's why I didn't put more DF1 in. I'm trying to make it good to -20°F without additives. So much for that effort. I'll have to call the station to see how they treat their fuel if at all and then probably add another $30 in additives. :mad:
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
Hand out from cenex. Page 11 talks about stratification contamination.

Could be what the milk hauler was talking about.

Only solution is heat above crpp and then mixing.


Screenshot_20180113-062318.png
 

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Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Thread starter #158
I just wish we could get some accurate information from the fuel stops, as well as which chemicals blend well with other chemicals.

We are told that adding chemicals to winterized fuel creates problems. We are also told the opposite.

We have fuel haulers that give their opinions, but with all due respect, I doubt they really know anything about the treatment process, specs, or anything. At best, they may know that the tank they are hauling has additives, but probably not what kind, nor do they know the compatibility with other winter additives off the shelf. I delivered fuel and chemicals on a daily basis and knew nothing about any of it other than what was on the MSDS.

The managers at the truck stops, they know nothing either other than the public knowledge of whether what is in their tanks currently is treated.

What happens when you buy fuel at a Cenex, then later down the road you buy a half tank of fuel at a Loves? What is the compatibility between the additives those two companies are using?

Are the same companies even utilizing he same additives across the country? Only one I have seen info on that is Loves. Even then, it simply states Afton Chemical is handling it all, not if it’s the same additive being used.

Additives on the shelf claim to be compatible with whatever is in the tanks already. Is it? We have no clue. Will the truck stops tell us? Doubtful because they make a killing selling those additives at the counter.

Finally, truck stops need to be winterizing all of their fuel, not just specific locations on certain days depending on the temperature that day. Too many of us load below interstate 40 and are heading north with possibly untreated fuel. Our only option? Dump stuff off the shelves in and hope it mixes well with whatever we buy next.

Get the wrong mix, you end up stranded with a filter that looks like the one @mndriver posted.
 
So what is the solution? These fuel stops have to treat their fuel somewhat just to pump it.

My personal suggestion would be pick a fuel stop, add what you need on top of that and roll.

That is what we do and we have fleets of trucks up there running.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
I'm thinking of getting some kind of heating element for a hot water heater (rated for chemical/fuel) and making myself something that can be plugged in like a block heater when at home and stuck down the fuel fill. At least that way I can get some heat into the fuel and get it above 20*F before I leave even on a -15 day.

In-Tank Fuel and Fluid Warming Solutions | Phillips & Temro Industries

Problem has never been while I am running. It's either at the start of the day before the fuel warms or after I am sitting for an extended home time.
 
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