They are still trying... ELD... different approaches... this one is actually interesting....

Getfit Tommy

Highway Hero
... but it still won't work. People don't seem to know a dead Horse when they see one.

Here is the article and link:

Open letter from Larry Klimek Trucking urging reps to delay ELD mandate


"I am writing in reference to the ELD mandate and the negative effect it will have on our company and other small companies nationwide. Larry Klimek Harvesting was first founded in 1978. The company continued to grow into a small trucking company and eventually a brokerage was formed. We have five trucks and fouor drivers. The President and owner, Lawrence J. Klimek and his brother, Michael Klimek, drive for the company. The Vice President and wife of Lawrence Klimek, Billie Klimek, is among the clerical staff. Larry Klimek Trucking and Brokerage, Inc., is genuine family-based business. The type of business this country was built on." (nice catch-phrase)

(This is the one that still catches my attention)

According to an Overdrive magazine survey of small trucking companies, we find ourselves included in the 71 percent of respondents who [in 2014 intended to] retire or quit over the road trucking [if the ELD final rule was implemented].

I still wish that when people write these letters, they would think a little longer and also maybe have a professional journalist do their thing, like spell-check, etc., etc....

Anyway, I guess trucking companies will try until the bitter end.

Congress still has not changed its stance or response to these requests. It's very simple: "Drivers just want to keep cheating on their Hours of Service"

Isn't that what it really comes down to? I mean, if you can't get there on time, yeah, that's an issue. Losing accounts, that is an issue. Turning solo drivers into Team operations, that's an issue, but it seems to me that the answer has been repeatedly stated and that there is NOTHING at this point to change things.

The answer is "NO"

Now, maybe after implementation when people realize how the economy is affected... well, maybe, just maybe, there will be some type of reconsideration on the matter, but at this point, I feel it is just a complete waste of time to keep trying. I mean, we're not even on the ELD mandate now... we've (they've) moved on to dashcams and other electronic devices.

I dunno... what do I know? I'm just a dumb truckdriver.

Can't believe I even posted this, but then... I can't believe they are STILL trying....
 

Tazz

Infidel
My question to them if I was their Representative would be "What part of this makes it impossible for you to stay in business?".
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
My question to them if I was their Representative would be "What part of this makes it impossible for you to stay in business?".
From an owner operator perspective, it's a bit sketchy to make an investment on something that you don't even know if it will be legal in two years. There are cheap options out there, there are more expensive options that offer lots of fleet management solutions.

Problem is, it's crickets from FMCSA as to the required parameters for these systems. FMCSA isn't ready, most states aren't ready, so it is kind of silly to go live with this.

Why, as a business owner, do you want to get set up with software that is going to have a history of your logs, figures IFTA, maintains other information on drivers in terms of driving history, coaching for violations and such, only to be told two years down the road that the system doesn't qualify?

My eyes opened up to this now that I am beyond being leased to a carrier or being a company driver.
 

Tazz

Infidel
From an owner operator perspective, it's a bit sketchy to make an investment on something that you don't even know if it will be legal in two years. There are cheap options out there, there are more expensive options that offer lots of fleet management solutions.

Problem is, it's crickets from FMCSA as to the required parameters for these systems. FMCSA isn't ready, most states aren't ready, so it is kind of silly to go live with this.

Why, as a business owner, do you want to get set up with software that is going to have a history of your logs, figures IFTA, maintains other information on drivers in terms of driving history, coaching for violations and such, only to be told two years down the road that the system doesn't qualify?

My eyes opened up to this now that I am beyond being leased to a carrier or being a company driver.
Choosing an Electronic Logging Device Checklist

Those are the ELD compliant units. Unless you are going with some AOBR (that would be your choice) you can pick any of those off the list and they will be compliant.

I do not understand the problem.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Choosing an Electronic Logging Device Checklist

Those are the ELD compliant units. Unless you are going with some AOBR (that would be your choice) you can pick any of those off the list and they will be compliant.

I do not understand the problem.
And do you honestly think that small list is what we will be looking at in regards to requirements a year down the road?

FMCSA is getting the market flooded with options, something we must invest money into, and there is no idea what is about to change once this goes live.

Where is the specs on actual settings? Example: Keep Truckin has a "yard move" option, that keeps you on duty and off the drive line. I'm guessing others might have this as well. Surely there has to be some limits to this, and surely, FMCSA knows this is an issue.

What's the required limit to do go the drive line when the vehicle starts moving?

These are just a couple examples of settings that are not nailed down, and need to be nailed down before something like this becomes a requirement. FMCSA is making the Carrier and the ELD providers crash test dummies in this implementation, a completely unprofessional way to go about this.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
Nor do they address executive orders and emergency suspension issues.

https://keeptruckin.com/blog/fmcsa-hours-service-hurricane-harvey/

During August, our logs are showing log violations because we exceeded the 70-hour clocks for a few days in a row. We made not and comments on those days in question, but it's still flagged as in violation.

I've asked keeptruckin' for a check box that allows us to mark several days when it's under emergency suspension.

Something no AOBR or ELD is setup to address.
 

Tazz

Infidel
All of those are compliant with the ELD rule as written. They are self certified to meet all aspects of the ELD mandate as passed. Apparently "yard moves" falls within those parameters or they would not be there. I know if you dig through the specs a one mile accuracy is required so that may be where a "yard move" may come in since the specs call for anything over 5 miles an hour to be recorded as driving. Which by the letter of the regulation would be correct.
ELD - Electronic Logging Devices



I have not read any change, intended change, or modification to the rule. Can someone point this out to me?
 

Tazz

Infidel
Nor do they address executive orders and emergency suspension issues.

https://keeptruckin.com/blog/fmcsa-hours-service-hurricane-harvey/

During August, our logs are showing log violations because we exceeded the 70-hour clocks for a few days in a row. We made not and comments on those days in question, but it's still flagged as in violation.

I've asked keeptruckin' for a check box that allows us to mark several days when it's under emergency suspension.

Something no AOBR or ELD is setup to address.
Considering those EO's only apply in the affected areas I can see why they flag the violation. Can you not add manual comments?
 

Tazz

Infidel
395.28 authorizes yard moves

§395.28 Special driving categories; other driving statuses.
(a) Special driving categories—(1) Motor carrier options. A motor carrier may configure an ELD to authorize a driver to indicate that the driver is operating a commercial motor vehicle under any of the following special driving categories:

(i) Authorized personal use; and

(ii) Yard moves.

(2) Driver's responsibilities. A driver operating a commercial motor vehicle under one of the authorized categories listed in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:

(i) Must select on the ELD the applicable special driving category before the start of the status and deselect when the indicated status ends; and

(ii) When prompted by the ELD, annotate the driver's ELD record describing the driver's activity.

(b) Drivers exempt from ELD use. A motor carrier may configure an ELD to designate a driver as exempt from ELD use.

(c) Other driving statuses. A driver operating a commercial motor vehicle under any exception under §390.3(f) of this subchapter or §395.1 who is not covered under paragraph (a) or (b) of this section must annotate the driver's ELD record to explain the applicable exemption.



And that last sentence covers your situation @mndriver.
 

r3gulator3

IMA KEEP IT REDNECK
Supporter
My brother is. Trucking company of one. Gets loads from a broker. He uses a real time elog app on his phone. What does he think of paper logs. They suck. Had to constantly make notes of mileage at scales, toll booth, and state lines ect. Now it's all automatic.

The challenge is to work with the broker and get runs you can complete in compliance, manage your time.

Personally, I don't mind the elog. I do know how to run paper. I am dispatched as a solo driver most of my runs are less than 600, and if they are over 600 they usually plan a two day run for me. I work for a company that respects a drivers opinion in Saftey in that if your fatigued or weather is bad. Park the truck. They will repower the load or they will reschedule the appointment. How does that work for a small company like my brother. Well. It doesn't work so well. However you have to have the intestinal fortitude to call and reschedule if you must. But it takes a lot to overcome pride.

All that being said. I don't think elds should be mandated, I also don't think inward or driver facing cameras should be legal. The government has their hands in too much and adding more is just another way for them to micromanage the industry because that's what the ATA wants. To me it seems like the ATA wants to put the little guys out of business and have nothing but large companies out there.

And I think the speed mandate that keeps getting talked about will be another future threat. But we will see how that goes.
 

Injun

Rabid Squaw
Staff member
Supporter
FMCSA has had a decade to hammer out the details with all the companies that are already on elogs. And don't give me the small companies are soooo much different than big companies crap. I ran with a three-truck mom n pop. HoS is HoS. Either you choose to comply or you don't. FMCSA has parameters set that allow for short, slow moves in the yard or to a dock. Even big carriers can't move several miles to a truck stop when the customer kicks them out. However it is their drivers deal with it and remain in compliance, small companies can, too.

Point being, FMCSA should have had a set of parameters worked out a long time ago. If they don't, I will be surprised. Seems to me they just haven't publicized them yet.
 

Getfit Tommy

Highway Hero
My vote say's that trucking should go back to the way it was back in the old days.

Keep the economy rolling efficiently and let the driver get home when he needs to. Only the professionals survive the industry.

The harder you run, the more money you make. "A man's got to know his limitations"

Now we have big brother monitoring our every move, and they aren't finished. They never will be through effing with us, yet the question always arises "When can you be there?"

This whole "control issue" is a 100% crock of uninformed dog ****.

In time, it's all going to go away. People want their ****, and they want it before they even ordered it, and they want drivers who will run it to them ASAP.

We are in the midst of a once respected industry that has now evolved into a Comedy Central.

There will be great repercussions to messing with the trucking industry. If anything good comes out of it, it will be awareness and respect for what a trucker actually does out here.
 

Ranger_375

Well-Known Member
If you old timers had known your limitations and operated accordingly, the safety track record wouldn't be there for introduction of control measures like ELD's.
 

Getfit Tommy

Highway Hero
Hey @Ranger_375

The only time I hear from you is when you start talking ****. How about you just go away and accept the fact that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?

You are going to blame safety, or the lack thereof on us "old-timers" because we actually knew our limitations? Did it ever occur to you that we did not need to be monitored like some of you babies of today? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the powers that be just happened to see the trucking industry as some kind of Gold mine? If you really think that all this **** is about safety, you are a fool. If you were actually correct with your smart-ass statements, why am I still here with a clean driving record and over 39 years under my belt? Are you going to tell me that "I just got lucky?"

Grow up and get back to me when you have a few hundred-thousand more "monitored" miles under you "safety" belt.
 

Duck

Nose-Man
Supporter
The folks who knew their limitations weren't the cause of this. It was the ones who didn't.
It's not even about the ones who didn't.

It's about big business crushing small business, by bribing politicians to make laws that favor them.
 

Tazz

Infidel
It's not even about the ones who didn't.

It's about big business crushing small business, by bribing politicians to make laws that favor them.
:rolleyes:

People blame big business, cheap rate haulers, DOT, new O/O, brokers for their failure to remain in business. The fact is they did not run a profitable business.

There are options that equal less than $.01 per mile a year. If that put a you out you were going anyways.
 

Tazz

Infidel
If you old timers had known your limitations and operated accordingly, the safety track record wouldn't be there for introduction of control measures like ELD's.
To a degree maybe. In addition technology, volume of mikes driven and traffic in general also caused a greater focus on safety and compliance with regulations.
 

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