fuel economy is a measure of efficiency, additives are snake oil

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
I have kemlite walls. The walls were solid until I purchased the trailer 18 months ago. Then some idiot with clamps unloading cheese couldn't stay off the walls. I put two etrak rails in to protect the walls. No issues since.
 
I don't know about all that snake oil and biodiesel statements. My truck had this black oily substance in the fuel tanks when I bought it. Thought it was algae or some growth. Tried every additive I could find to get rid of it and nothing worked. Then one time in Missouri I decided to get some biodiesel at a station off I70. The supplier was there filling tanks. I talked to him a few minutes and asked what they used in the making of their fuel, blah blah blah. I put 100 gallons in topping the tanks off. The next time I needed fuel, I looked in the tanks and ALL that nasty black stuff was gone!! Tanks looked brand new inside. My Davco was pretty much clogged as the fuel was to the top of the filter. Changed the filter, filled the tanks and that was that. 2 years now and no more black stuff in my tanks. I also run power service in the silver bottle every time I fuel the truck. It makes the truck idle smoother and it's not as noisy. Call it snake oil, I call it the bomb.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
I don't know about all that snake oil and biodiesel statements. My truck had this black oily substance in the fuel tanks when I bought it. Thought it was algae or some growth. Tried every additive I could find to get rid of it and nothing worked. Then one time in Missouri I decided to get some biodiesel at a station off I70. The supplier was there filling tanks. I talked to him a few minutes and asked what they used in the making of their fuel, blah blah blah. I put 100 gallons in topping the tanks off. The next time I needed fuel, I looked in the tanks and ALL that nasty black stuff was gone!! Tanks looked brand new inside. My Davco was pretty much clogged as the fuel was to the top of the filter. Changed the filter, filled the tanks and that was that. 2 years now and no more black stuff in my tanks. I also run power service in the silver bottle every time I fuel the truck. It makes the truck idle smoother and it's not as noisy. Call it snake oil, I call it the bomb.

How many miles are you getting between filter changes on your Davco.?

Mine are between 42-44,000 miles. Davco says the service life is considered 30,000 miles.

Since I super-dosed my system in Jan 2014, I haven't really used any additives to my fuel. The #1 thing I DO still do is run my tanks dry as far as I dare. I run twin 120 gallon tanks. The most fuel I have ever filled to is 208 gallons.

Yes, I still consider them snake oils.
 

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
I don't know about all that snake oil and biodiesel statements. My truck had this black oily substance in the fuel tanks when I bought it. Thought it was algae or some growth. Tried every additive I could find to get rid of it and nothing worked. Then one time in Missouri I decided to get some biodiesel at a station off I70. The supplier was there filling tanks. I talked to him a few minutes and asked what they used in the making of their fuel, blah blah blah. I put 100 gallons in topping the tanks off. The next time I needed fuel, I looked in the tanks and ALL that nasty black stuff was gone!! Tanks looked brand new inside. My Davco was pretty much clogged as the fuel was to the top of the filter. Changed the filter, filled the tanks and that was that. 2 years now and no more black stuff in my tanks. I also run power service in the silver bottle every time I fuel the truck. It makes the truck idle smoother and it's not as noisy. Call it snake oil, I call it the bomb.
Biodiesel got blamed for lots of filter issues when it first hit the market. It wasn't the bio plugging them up, it was all the accumulated trash that the bio was cleaning out of the tanks and lines!
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
biodiesel is made through the titration of soap (glycerin) and alcohol. The residue soap that is in the fuel cleans the fuel system. The residue alcohol in the system absorbs water.
I don't know where that came from, but that's not really true. Titration is a measurement process, and glycerin is a by-product of the bio production.

Alcohol is used in the transesterification process to convert the oil into biodiesel. And the biodiesel itself, unlike diesel, can mix with small amounts of water, so it doesn't need any residual alcohol to hold water.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
I don't know where that came from, but that's not really true. Titration is a measurement process, and glycerin is a by-product of the bio production.

Alcohol is used in the transesterification process to convert the oil into biodiesel. And the biodiesel itself, unlike diesel, can mix with small amounts of water, so it doesn't need any residual alcohol to hold water.
It's been 6 years since I read my books up on running Biodiesel. As well as the class I took on energy and the environment. The intention was to run waste veggie oil etc. Build a solar house, heat pump etc. "live green".....

The one things I DO remember from it all is that it's a shell game for all the alternative energies with biodiesel and ethanol being the biggest con on the American public in some time.
 
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Duck

Custom title
Supporter
The one things I DO remember from it all is that it's a shell game for all the alternative energies with biodiesel and ethanol being the biggest con on the American public in some time.
No, the biggest con is "global warming" which they renamed to "climate change" when it became obvious to laymen that it wasn't actually happening.

Biofuels are just a bastard offspring of that larger con.
 

Hammer166

Instigateur №166™
No, the biggest con is "global warming" which they renamed to "climate change" when it became obvious to laymen that it wasn't actually happening.

Biofuels are just a bastard offspring of that larger con.

Yeah, if you want to know about the climate change crowd, just follow the money! AlGore was poised to make billions if the Carbon Credit deal had happened.
 

Blood

Driveler Emeritus
I use additives off n on, not really convinced either way for the most part.
I used to dose the fuel with Meaner Power Cleaner at every service until I made a routine of forgetting. ;)

Several weeks ago when I was running a Utah turn an injector started fluttering.
It was barely noticeable at first (only at altitude) but it didn't take long for it to become pronounced.

I added about a quart (maybe 2) of ATF to the fuel and about a cup to the oil when I got home.
That was weeks ago and I forgot all about the flutter until it started up again last night.

This is in a 60 series, 12.7.
My bro has one (12.7) with nearly 1.4 mil and never replaced an injector.
He still adds his drained oil to the fuel tanks at every service.
I quit doing that a few years ago but for years it was routine to dump the drained oil into the fuel tanks and fill the fuel filters half-way with ATF at every service.

I started adding drained oil to the fuel and ATF to the filters shortly after I started OTR because a hand called Brush Ape did it that way.
He had an old mechanical Cat with an un-heard of amount of miles on it that had never been opened up...
FWIW.

But I wouldn't add anything to an emissions engine unless I had it on really good authority...
like Brush Ape.
:D
 

Duck

Custom title
Supporter
When I drove for Roadway, about half their day cabs had the glass type fuel filters located behind the cab on the right side for some reason. They were always black.

Most of the terminals have fuel pumps & instead of dumping the used oil into the truck tanks, they dumped it into the underground tanks.

The day cabs never fueled at truck stops. So basically every ounce of fuel ever run in those trucks had used oil in it.

Once I figured out the union wasn't much more than a revenue source for advancing Marxists' political agendas, (and the forced teaming) I quit.

That was two years before the DPF systems came out. Due to the change of operations from being bought out by Yellow and the formation of YRC, I think they held off on buying new trucks for a while. So I wasn't around when their first DPF trucks started fueling up at their terminals. About 3 months after I quit, everyone with my level of seniority & lower got laid off, so the two guys I kept in touch with also weren't around.

But I imagine that unless they did their research ahead of time, they had quite a few problems with that oiled fuel.

Nowadays I see YRC trucks with DEF tanks on them but since I only see the left sides of them, I don't know if their fuel filters are still black.
 

12gauge1981

Member
I remember useing ATF as a carbon cleaner on my old chevy. Idel it thumb over hole and feed it down the carb and tord the end flood it to where it shut off let it sit for 10 min , start it up and smoke the neighborhood out. :) yanked the motor when it had 120k on it and the valves and pistons looked as if the motor was ran on propane its whole life. That said I have a S60 12.7 woth duel 150s how much ATF in the tanks would be needed to help. And is dextron3 still the ATF of choice.

My understanding of it was ATF is a detergent and is pretty much what every so called cleaner is Just with there own little adadditives like ctane etc.

By the way new here O/O based out of LV Nevada. 2000 VOLVO 770 s60 13sp.
 

12gauge1981

Member
Lol well if that happens ill take that battle up when i get there. Between recipes and a very clear fuel log , and they still wana nail my ass ill have fun in the court room with the prick. I have no tolarance for dick head cops. Ive been fortunate that 90% of the ones ive ran into have been cool. Very few have I met that I flat out called bullshit on when trying to get me on something. And I have won every time. To many people fold where a officer is around. If you are right and know it and can prove it Do so..
 

Copperhead

Well-Known Member
These guys might be trying to sell something, but whatever. This article is spot-on. This "algae" is NOT living material that can "grow."

Engines1 | Westerbeke, Universal, Marine Engines, AGM Batteries, Engine Controls Knowledgebase
Read your link again. From the link you posted.....

"While bacteria and other microbes contribute to and accelerate this process...."

Microbes contribute to the "algae" issues that one might experience. I only called it algae, as that is how the common vernacular describes it. I dose my fuel occasionally to kill any microbes that might have set up shop in my fuel system. Let's not turn this into a science class. Just because I called it algae for the common reader here does not mean I have no clue what is going on. I will also call an earth shaking process an earthquake, as most folks would call it that, and not a seismic anomaly, which is what it really is in technical terms. Don't be so literal that you look foolish.
 
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mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
You pulling a reefer? You'd be surprised how inefficient they become as they age. Moisture instrusion in the walls...makes them gain weight, too. Something to remember for down the road decision making.

I just traded my 2003 great Dane off on a 2016 great Dane. Same reefer unit. I kept it and moved it to the new trailer.

I was 35,400 lb with the old trailer. I'm 34,300 with the new trailer and have a heavier duty floor. I could loose another 400 lbs if I wanted to trade out all the cast iron brake drums for centerfuse drums and put 4 aluminum rims on instead of the 4 steel wheels on the inside of my drives. The trailer came with all 8 aluminum rims instead of 8 steel rims.
 

Copperhead

Well-Known Member
It's been 6 years since I read my books up on running Biodiesel. As well as the class I took on energy and the environment. The intention was to run waste veggie oil etc. Build a solar house, heat pump etc. "live green".....

The one things I DO remember from it all is that it's a shell game for all the alternative energies with biodiesel and ethanol being the biggest con on the American public in some time.
Not sure how it is the biggest con on the public. Generally I like bio fuels. My pickup is a flex fuel engine, and I know what various blends of gasoline/ethanol delivers for fuel economy, so I can then see what the current price of the different blends are at the pump, do a quick calculation on which will give me the lowest cost per mile and fill up. Nice have a wide variety. I can get E0, E10, E15, E20, E30, or E85 anytime of the year. The prices between these fluctuate seasonally and I can switch fuels as those prices change and get the best value. Right now, in my area, that is E15.

As for biodiesel. Soy oil, animal fats, and other stuff were basically waste products. Making diesel out of them makes sense. It provides a way for a waste product to be utilized. I have been using various blends of bio in my trucks, ag tractors, etc for years and never had any issues. Maybe an occasional early fuel filter change in extreme cold weather, but nothing major. It is so easy to change a fuel filter on a Davco unit.

Now that being said, anyone who goes for the marketing game on using additive to get better fuel economy is probably going to be disappointed. Additives are not snake oil if they are used to correct certain problems. Like anti-gel in very cold weather, or additives that break down aphaltine that is basically chunks of carbon build up that are created in the fuel rail on the motor under intense heat and when fuel is returned to the fuel tanks, that stuff can build up. Or additives that help address critters that have set up home in fuel tanks. There are no guarantees that one will only get clean, perfect fuel free from any other contaminates. There is a place for fuel additives, some sort of fuel economy improvement is very low on the list.
 

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