Black Smoke Matters

ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
The privacy argument is moot as well. You are recorded by traffic cameras daily. Your cell phone is tracked by your cell provider as it contacts towers in your travels. Your GPS location is tracked by multiple apps on your smartphone, and not only are those tags recorded and downloaded, that data is monetized and sold by multiple companies.

You're worried about GPS tags downloaded by your ELD???
 

Sinister

Supermodel
Staff member
Supporter
The privacy argument is moot as well. You are recorded by traffic cameras daily. Your cell phone is tracked by your cell provider as it contacts towers in your travels. Your GPS location is tracked by multiple apps on your smartphone, and not only are those tags recorded and downloaded, that data is monetized and sold by multiple companies.

You're worried about GPS tags downloaded by your ELD???

The difference being that cellphone apps are bought and willingly subscribed to.

The ELD was forced.

Traffic cameras on interstates aren't really used for enforcement as much as safety.

But yes, the expectation of privacy is gone these days.

Not long ago I was talking to one of my cousins back in New York, and he'd mentioned DWI Checkpoints.

I'd totally forgotten about them since i moved away, and my head damn near exploded.

EVERYONE has their freedom of movement infringed upon because someone MIGHT have sniffed a bottlecap.

Makes me insane.

ELD at least makes a little more sense than that given some of the garbage driving trucks these days.
 

Drifter McDuck

Well-Known Member
This isn’t about thinking the industry is wonderful, it’s about realizing that the ELD fight is over.

Lots of money spent on lawyers trying to fight this, every angle possible was used, including trying to fight it on constitutional grounds.

Everyone lost in court, and the highest court in the land wouldn’t even acknowledge the case.

You would need the majority of the industry to come together and be willing to shut the trucks down. You would never even get 1/10th of 1%.

Beyond the privacy concerns that got shot down, there is no further argument.

If you approach the safety angle, it’s no longer even a debate about the ELD. It becomes a debate about HOS reform, and having it be a reform that is in our favor.

I’m not going to be one of the guys that just makes fun of what you are trying to do, because I respect people who fight for what they believe in. Just saying the ELD fight is a 100% wasted effort, because it isn’t going away.
It may very well be a losing fight, but if we fight hard enough, we may be able to at least push HOS reform and quash the idea of further intrusion into our privacy. Without resistance, speed limiters, driver facing cameras, auto-braking, and who knows what else will be forced on us without delay.
 

Rigjockey

In Gord we trust!
Supporter
It may very well be a losing fight, but if we fight hard enough, we may be able to at least push HOS reform and quash the idea of further intrusion into our privacy. Without resistance, speed limiters, driver facing cameras, auto-braking, and who knows what else will be forced on us without delay.
All of those should be your fight. The ELD thing is over! You may have more support from other drivers on the other issues than you would get trying to fight the ELD.
But, this exposes the fact that BSM has no clear direction, goal or one leader for multiple convoys in different states to express a common goal, talk to the media in a way that will gain gain support for the cause.
 

Drifter McDuck

Well-Known Member
The privacy argument is moot as well. You are recorded by traffic cameras daily. Your cell phone is tracked by your cell provider as it contacts towers in your travels. Your GPS location is tracked by multiple apps on your smartphone, and not only are those tags recorded and downloaded, that data is monetized and sold by multiple companies.

You're worried about GPS tags downloaded by your ELD???
I have a whole list of things I’m not ok with where government surveillance is involved, but one war at a time. My main issue with the ELD is the recording of exact gps coordinates, that I must turn over to a government official, without a warrant. This is bigger than just the trucking industry. Allowing the government to mandate such precise tracking on such a large portion of the population is an unprecedented power grab. I’m a history guy.... and I know what follows once a government is allowed to put its citizens in a position of check-mate. There are already other groups involved in pushing changes to individual privacy rights in regards to the tech companies, like Google and Facebook. But I’m not a tech guy, so I’ll leave that fight to the techie activists. My industry is trucking, and I’m going to support my industry’s stand against the surveillance state and the over-regulation.
 

Ontario Outlaw

Hozer Witta Hood
Supporter
I have a whole list of things I’m not ok with where government surveillance is involved, but one war at a time. My main issue with the ELD is the recording of exact gps coordinates, that I must turn over to a government official, without a warrant. This is bigger than just the trucking industry. Allowing the government to mandate such precise tracking on such a large portion of the population is an unprecedented power grab. I’m a history guy.... and I know what follows once a government is allowed to put its citizens in a position of check-mate. There are already other groups involved in pushing changes to individual privacy rights in regards to the tech companies, like Google and Facebook. But I’m not a tech guy, so I’ll leave that fight to the techie activists. My industry is trucking, and I’m going to support my industry’s stand against the surveillance state and the over-regulation.
Except you’re in one of the highest regulated industries. Nobody cares when and where burger flippers are. Part of being a CDL license holder is accepting scrutiny.

Are you against being GPS tracked by the government only? Or are you ok with being GPS tracked by a trucking company?
 

Drifter McDuck

Well-Known Member
All of those should be your fight. The ELD thing is over! You may have more support from other drivers on the other issues than you would get trying to fight the ELD.
But, this exposes the fact that BSM has no clear direction, goal or one leader for multiple convoys in different states to express a common goal, talk to the media in a way that will gain gain support for the cause.
The ELD is not our only battle, and the objectives are clearly stated. Joe Denny is the leader. The state convoys are being coordinated through a committee. There are designated speakers who talk to the media at the convoys. Press releases are being forwarded to news agencies and websites. We are doing a mass-contact of congressmen. There is leadership, there is strategy, there are clearly defined objectives, and there are numbers, growing every day. Now quit telling us we can’t, and get involved!
 

Attachments

Rigjockey

In Gord we trust!
Supporter
The ELD is not our only battle, and the objectives are clearly stated. Joe Denny is the leader. The state convoys are being coordinated through a committee. There are designated speakers who talk to the media at the convoys. Press releases are being forwarded to news agencies and websites. We are doing a mass-contact of congressmen. There is leadership, there is strategy, there are clearly defined objectives, and there are numbers, growing every day. Now quit telling us we can’t, and get involved!
Okay then, Carry on! 👍
 

Duck

Bumper sticker slogan goes here
Supporter
It may very well be a losing fight, but if we fight hard enough, we may be able to at least push HOS reform and quash the idea of further intrusion into our privacy. Without resistance, speed limiters, driver facing cameras, auto-braking, and who knows what else will be forced on us without delay.
Yes. Even on something we think is a lost cause, giving up only frees them up and gives them implied consent to make even more bullshit regulations.
 

Duck

Bumper sticker slogan goes here
Supporter
There are designated speakers who talk to the media at the convoys
Properly trained "journalists" know how to seek out the dumbest person in a group of people and stick a camera and microphone in front of them.

As soon as they realize you're against big oppressive government, you become the enemy and they'll walk right past your designated media reps and go towards the fat guy with no shirt on, or the guy with the confederate flag, or anybody with Texas plates.
 
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ironpony

Professional Pot-Stirrer
Supporter
The ELD is not our only battle, and the objectives are clearly stated. Joe Denny is the leader. The state convoys are being coordinated through a committee. There are designated speakers who talk to the media at the convoys. Press releases are being forwarded to news agencies and websites. We are doing a mass-contact of congressmen. There is leadership, there is strategy, there are clearly defined objectives, and there are numbers, growing every day. Now quit telling us we can’t, and get involved!
I've seen your "leader" speak on YouTube. He can't string two coherent thoughts together.

You're part of a highly regulated industry, in part, to assure public safety. GPS tags are part of ensuring compliance with the HOS regulations. Since many drivers have a very hard time using the "honor system" of filling out paper logs without flat out lying about line 3 hours and duty status change locations, we now have ELDs. I can only assume that your entire purpose is to encourage the practice of submitting fraudulent logs, since the law already requires documentation of your location under the HOS rules.

SCOTUS has already declared their position on the Constitutionality of this issue. The Court sees no conflict with your individual rights due to the nature of your profession, and an overriding public interest in regulation of the industry.
 

Johnson

Well-Known Member
I’ve raised kids like you and @dchawk81. No matter what I say, you’re going to counter it just for the sake of arguing. So you think the industry is the most awesome it’s ever been, the HOS are perfect, ELD is great, the government is trustworthy and they got it right, and guys like me should just stop complaining. Got it.
Just pointing out facts.
No the industry isn't awesome , it's been crumbling since I got started in late 89.
No the HOS isn't perfect matter of fact I already stated its one the problems.
ELD'S , I seriously don't have a problem with them . they haven't disrupted my show at all.
The government trustworthy? Our government and the politicians contained within is and are complete joke.
 

Johnson

Well-Known Member
The ELD is not our only battle, and the objectives are clearly stated. Joe Denny is the leader. The state convoys are being coordinated through a committee. There are designated speakers who talk to the media at the convoys. Press releases are being forwarded to news agencies and websites. We are doing a mass-contact of congressmen. There is leadership, there is strategy, there are clearly defined objectives, and there are numbers, growing every day. Now quit telling us we can’t, and get involved!
ELD' to be made a choice under the
'American Constitutional Right', huh ?

You can retrain all the cops it won't change anything , the real problem is how the regs are written. Most of the green book is written in a manner that leaves the majority up to interpretation.

You want the government's intrusion out of your life but , you want them to:
Provide parking with food, restrooms and showers as citizens are provided, huh?
[ side note ] where does the government provide this for citizens?

Who the heck wrote this stuff? , I'm guessing it was the same person that came up with:
Black Smoke Matters
 

Drifter McDuck

Well-Known Member
I've seen your "leader" speak on YouTube. He can't string two coherent thoughts together.

You're part of a highly regulated industry, in part, to assure public safety. GPS tags are part of ensuring compliance with the HOS regulations. Since many drivers have a very hard time using the "honor system" of filling out paper logs without flat out lying about line 3 hours and duty status change locations, we now have ELDs. I can only assume that your entire purpose is to encourage the practice of submitting fraudulent logs, since the law already requires documentation of your location under the HOS rules.

SCOTUS has already declared their position on the Constitutionality of this issue. The Court sees no conflict with your individual rights due to the nature of your profession, and an overriding public interest in regulation of the industry.
HOS can be enforced, electronically, without GPS location codes.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
HOS can be enforced, electronically, without GPS location codes
I'm still trying to find the code where it says we are obligated to turn over our exact GPS coordinates on demand with no warrant.

The closest I can come is a requirement for reporting ifta miles. Nothing related to eld or hos.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
You can retrain all the cops it won't change anything , the real problem is how the regs are written. Most of the green book is written in a manner that leaves the majority up to interpretation.
This is a huge problem. Rules are not clear in many cases, leaving us subject to putting our career in jeopardy over trivial nonsense.
 
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