14 day challenge to OOIDA.....

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
And I welcome anyone else to call and challenge OOIDA... And asked them to call me back with an answer in 14 days.


I asked them today WHY is the trucking industry being hit with a $3+ billion dollar tax bill to continue to operate in the US by forcing us to purchase an ELD and the monthly service fees that go with it, paid to private industry?

There are over 5.5 million trucks that will be effected by this at a cost of $400+ per unit and $40/ month.

That's $2.2 billion alone in equipment purchase and another $2.6 billion in annual monthly subscription fees.

More than $4.8 billion in a "tax" paid to continue to operate a small business in the US.
 

Tazz

Infidel
By the same way they mandate having a fire extinguisher, annual inspections, safety triangles and/or flares, seat belts, consortium for compliance of drug and alcohol, EPA controls on engines.............

The money does not go to the government so it is not a tax (other than the taxes paid on the profits of those companies but that is another subject) per se. It is a cost that in fairness to the folks in Grain Valley they have brought up in legal briefs and were shot down. Pretty sure it was in one of the first filings a District Judge simple denied the claim that the USDOT and FMCSA did not have the authority to mandate equipment that would raise cost.

One question, ok two, where does the 5.5 million truck number come from, and how many are already on some form of ELD?
 
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GAnthony

Methuselah
Supporter
I am reviewing whether or not to remain a member or place the renewal form in a circular file.
i had already tossed mine months ago.

but i am a lowly driver, i have nothing anymore in this game, and could care less what the gooberment cracks the whip at us for.

but everyone else still in this, go full throttle.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Not sure about any other organizations, but I know that OOIDA has exhausted tons of money and hours fighting this mandate all the way to the point of being rejected by the Supreme Court. IMO, they were to the point that the reminded me of Monty Python (and I even posted that video at one point). Arms and legs severed, but still trying to fight.

Plain and simple, this is the future of trucking. Electronic logging has taken over pen and paper, which has finally brought us to a point where we are forced to face the problem we should have been facing, and fighting, for decades...... HOS.

The problems with HOS are not being forced to the front of the room where everybody can see, no more wiggle room. Yeah, I know, this can be done, that can be done, but for the most part, the fudging doors have been closed by the ELD.

Might be able to continue trying to fight for a delay on implementation, but I don't think there will be a good argument there either.

I think every fight that can be fought in regards to the ELD has already been fought.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
The eld doesn't bother me. Never has.


The associated cost, tantamount to a defacto tax, is my issue.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
The eld doesn't bother me. Never has.


The associated cost, tantamount to a defacto tax, is my issue.
I get it, but I just don't see any further angles to fight. OOIDA was pretty much out on an island during the past few years in regard to this, really not getting much help from any other organizations.

The ELD may not be an issue for you, but for the majority who want to fight it at this point, it is 100% the restrictions being placed on them by the ELD.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
I posted a link going back to 2009 about the plans for "automated inspections". There is no fighting that beast. I get it. Even as it is now, you may as well not even try to fudge paper. The mouse tracks that can be called upon to track you and place you at a spot is incredible and the true system isn't even really in place. I learned that early in 2012 when I came back on the road.

So I don't even see a need to try to maintain an ELD even. It's pointless really.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
So I don't even see a need to try to maintain an ELD even. It's pointless really.
I totally get that. Lots that we could do without. Really no reason why HOS can't be dumbed down to 14 hours of work (whatever work you want to do during that 14 hours), followed by 10 hours off duty. Two lines for the log is all we need at that point, line 1 for working, line 2 for off duty (including personal conveyance).
 

Duck

Green banner
Supporter
I totally get that. Lots that we could do without. Really no reason why HOS can't be dumbed down to 14 hours of work (whatever work you want to do during that 14 hours), followed by 10 hours off duty. Two lines for the log is all we need at that point, line 1 for working, line 2 for off duty (including personal conveyance).
Companies would schedule trips based on 14 hours of driving per day.
 

dave350

Well-Known Member
Human beings have the unique ability to strive to strip any joy outta life. At this point the "rent seekers" seem to outnumber the productive members of society and they just keep sucking the blood from us.

This ELD thing is, IMO, over the top. People are not computers and can not and should not be treated as such. As technology progresses will the eventual scenario be that every scale you drive by can download your ELD/ Speed limiter (its coming) and then just issue citations for hours or speed? First scale getting the money I mean, not a ticket from every scale. (That just wouldn't be fair:D) Should we also have onboard scales as well? It can electronically send a signal if you get on the road and are a few pounds over then generate the ticket and what the hell let's hang the ****er too!

The leeches are forcing the productive to spend money on a device that doesn't increase productivity, therefore it's counterproductive because that money could have been used to purchase a product to help increase productivity or efficiency which would add to the bottom line.

These regulations are getting ridiculous. It's not just trucking either, these leeches have invaded construction also and every other industry.

When I left the house I left to work. That's what productive people do. I never put myself or anyone else in danger but if I wanted to work that's what I did. And still do.
 

Injun

Rabid Squaw
Staff member
Supporter
Funny, though... I was actually able to make more money on elogs than paper, all other things being equal and running 100% legal on both logging methods.
 

dave350

Well-Known Member
Funny, though... I was actually able to make more money on elogs than paper, all other things being equal and running 100% legal on both logging methods.

So then why spend the extra money on an ELD? It's the same thing, one paper and one electronic. That indicates the problem was elsewhere in the company. A problem that might have been solved without spending a lot of cash that might have been used for more productive means. I have no problem if a company chooses to purchase a product that they think will help their productivity. Whether they are right or wrong in their decision will bear out over time. I would argue that if companies are coming to the conclusion that ELD's were a good decision that they are possibly being short sighted.

For me it's the idea that govt forces these products on business without taking in the big picture. It's the negative consequences of a decision by govt to install a regulation that are not seen and so are never thought about that also have a negative effect on the overall economy. For instance, how many safe and responsible drivers will exit the industry or not enter the industry because they don't want to deal with all the extra regulations that are being imposed? And the fines that go with them. It's a number that can't be quantified but it does exist. So that's leads to possibly filling the void with less productive individuals or less capable individuals. What happens if you wind up (by accident) running out the clock in a bad section of town. You don't feel safe laying down in the bunk where you are. Do you move and risk a violation? Do you stick it out and hope nothing happens? You are now in this situation because a of a federal regulation instituted by individuals that have never driven a truck OTR. I put myself in places I felt safe regardless of what time I had left. It didn't happen everyday but it happens.

My opinion is that a lot of regulation that is lobbied for is done so not for safety (or whatever disguise is put on it) but it is to create barriers to entry. It's classic cronyism by industries and govt working together. The bigger the barrier govt can install to an industry the more an individual will be deterred from entering. That equals more profits for corporations and allows them to operate more inefficiently.

Small business start ups (last I checked) were on the decline. Carly Fiorina when she was running (like her not) said one thing that rang true (for people that were listening) the bigger govt gets the bigger the corporations have to be to afford it. It's very true.
 

Keendriver

Hates all of you
Funny, though... I was actually able to make more money on elogs than paper, all other things being equal and running 100% legal on both logging methods.
How is that done, being that each method is simply a way to record what you have done?

My days on the road were over before e-logs became prevalent and now that I'm local ( and on e-logs ) and just do a shift each day, I really pay no attention to the log other than my 30 min.

So how do you make more money with one over the other?
 

Getfit Tommy

Highway Hero
I think a committee of CDL holders should be put in charge of all of the Safety issues in the Airline Industry.

If, in return, the Airline Industy fails and planes start falling out of the sky, just come up with a simple solution: Let people walk.

After all, they say people don't exercise enough.

Same logic. ... or no logic at all. Seems it doesn't matter.

What is the big rush for people who know absolutely NOTHING about the trucking industry to suddenly attempt to take total control of it?

Please don't tell me it's a direct result of collective data that has been gathered over the years.

We are just another vulnerable industry, supposedly with extra money to spare, and we have all had lobotomy's performed... numerous times, thereby rendering us ignorant, illiterate and incapable of making rational decisions on our own.

When the economy flips upside-down, people can just immediately start pointing the finger.



Or better yet, when we run out of diesel fuel, we will ALL perish.

Life depends on Air, Water and Diesel fuel.

Obviously certain individuals do not think that diesel fuel is a huge part of the equation when it comes to sustaining life.


From the time a raw material comes out of the ground (or from a tree being chopped down) it is hauled a MINIMUM of SEVEN times on a truck until it is a finished product in a store... and available to sell to a consumer.

People on this earth cannot exist unless PEOPLE drive trucks, build trucks, operate diesel-powered farm equipment or take oil from the ground and turn it into diesel.

If this is a fact, and what I say is even slightly true, why would you want to make it impossible for me, a 36 year veteran of the highway) to be able to do my job? To take my hard-earned-underpaid money?

This is a really bad time for the trucking industry and I cannot for the life of me figure out what has prompted such a sudden increase in public perception towards truckers that results in the government trying to put an end to us... almost as if they are throwing us in prison and tossing the key.

Are we (and what we do) really that completely misunderstood?
 

Injun

Rabid Squaw
Staff member
Supporter
How is that done, being that each method is simply a way to record what you have done?

My days on the road were over before e-logs became prevalent and now that I'm local ( and on e-logs ) and just do a shift each day, I really pay no attention to the log other than my 30 min.

So how do you make more money with one over the other?
The minute-by-minute logging of the elog actually saves more time that the 15-minute block logging of the paper logs.. IF the driver keeps 100% legal logs. I don't have to say I did something for 15 minutes when it only took me 8.
 
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