We are an Autonomous Truck Company - Happy to Answer any Questions

Discussion in 'Autonomous Trucking' started by embark, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Duck

    Duck Quack Supporter

    Oh HELL no.

    I'm more likely to sabotage and destroy these things than fix them.

    Ya know, put stuff in the DEF tanks, loosen lug nuts, lay a crowbar across the battery terminals and walk away,...
     
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  2. krelithous

    krelithous Prius hater Supporter

    they use this tech in mining and look what happened!!!
     
  3. ironpony

    ironpony Well-Known Member Supporter

    One of the conclusions of the Large Truck Accident Causation Study laid the blame for the action initiating 80% of those accidents at the hands of the the 4-wheeler involved in the large truck accident. NHSTA lays the fundamental cause of many of these accidents to excessive speed over the limit, and unsafe for existing conditions.

    With the aforementioned accident statistics in mind, it is doubtful that your equipment will make a significant dent in the death toll caused by nonprofessional drivers.

    And a professional driver isn't aware of the surrounding conditions? That is patently ridiculous.

    An experienced professional driver would have similar experience.

    Sir, it is beyond belief that you would post something as ludicrous as this. Any system has inherent limitations and design flaws. To posit that a machine is "superhuman," no matter how well designed, is not credible in any instance.

    In other words, lowering the annual pay of those displaced from more lucrative OTR positions. There is something else to consider. The human experience base in trucking is developed and honed in the seat of an OTR truck, meaning the experience of those remaining in local positions will decline.

    I can only imagine that your invention will take food off the table of families, and substitute minimum wage jobs that cannot support a household.

    You and your fellows do not consider the human cost of stripping the livelihood of families from tens of thousands of workers.

    We, the members of this community disagree. The "driver shortage" is a myth created by the owners of large motor carriers over the years. If there was a significant shortage of drivers, significant amounts of freight would lie undelivered on loading docks. No study, private or public, has ever pointed to an abundance of undelivered freight in any quantity. Ever.

    Market forces take command, and freight that has become "hot" is expedited through the incentive of higher spot market rates.

    It gets delivered.

    I am quite familiar with real-time control as well as expert systems designed to "learn" their tasks. Its been my experience that the learning function is not a panacea to machine response to unanticipated situations. It It is an aid to reduce the cost of programming systems by reducing extensive software development programs. The fact is, that no amount of machine learning can eliminate indeterminant machine response to situations not included in "learning scenarios." The fact that one of your machines may have traveled down a particular route on a bright sunny day, will in no way prepare it for a night when freezing temperatures instantly sublimate atmospheric water vapor into road surface glare ice.

    The fact is, to date, the much touted Google self-driving car has been involved in 18 accidents, and caused an accident in February. This technology is far from infallible.

    I will again point out that the skill level of truck mechanics is inadequate to deal with existing technology. How can carriers and manufacturers be expected to maintain learning computers and "superhuman sensors," when something as simple as antilock brakes and lane departure sensors are beyond their abilities - let alone control system feedback loops found in the emissions controls of recent engine technology?

    Again 80% of those accidents were not caused by the trucker. You should be clear in your purpose: safety is a cloak you and your fellows are hiding behind. Your purpose is to eliminate jobs, reducing costs to large motor carriers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  4. krelithous

    krelithous Prius hater Supporter

    rich companies are looking to save more money and increase the unemployment rate

    look at the jobs at budweiser beer plant in Columbus Ohio. the entire plant is ran by robotic equipment directed by satellite control. 100 jobs lost

    people are gonna have to gain more skills because no job is safe now

    try hacking into the software there's a project for ya:rolleyes:

    yea well the mega's are requiring automated collision avoidance systems on new trucks. wich is gen 1 tech that they will collect data on and expand

    i'm sure there will be an nvidia card attached to the same board as the emissions computer:stare1:... so if there's any violation of testing it can be blamed on the third party interface resulting in corruption... great way to shift the blame and avoid future fines:rolleyes:. i don't even want to even think about that mess:stare1:. trucks and 4 wheelers have enough crap on them now half the time they don't even run right now:stare1:.
    be prepared for alot of robot convoys:confused:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2017
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  5. Injun

    Injun Rabid Squaw Staff Member Supporter

    And what's the guy who used to do the highway driving supposed to do? You people never consider the real human cost of this sort of technology. Every time a robot of some sort is placed into a production line, an entire family loses their income. Trucking is one of the last blue-collar production jobs that offers a liveable family wage...and you're proposing to rip it out from under the families that rely on it.

    I'm happy for you and Mike and Jeff. You guys get to reap the fruits of your labor directly on the backs of others. Oh, it might not be today or next week or even next year, but eventually, you guys will be sitting in your fancy, posh mansions with your fat wives and your fat, spoiled kids enjoying the big life. Meanwhile, for every one of these trucks you successfully get on the road, there will be a man looking into the faces of his hungry children wondering how he's going to feed them or a woman packing as many of her possessions as she can into her car and leaving everything else behind to live behind WalMart because her home was foreclosed. But that's not your concern. After all, you created a few part-time minimum wage jobs. We should be happy about that.

    Sorry, @Mike, but this issue has to be addressed. Transportation and trucking support at least 10-15% of American families. These people who push for this sort of automation have to be made to understand the gravity of their actions.
     
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  6. Duck

    Duck Quack Supporter

    I doubt it. It would have to be a very high profile accident the media would jump all over.

    The only likely way to get rid of these job killing machines is through legislation.

    It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do considering the conservatives answer to the middle class, the president wants to save and create jobs, and the democrats answer to the unions, and the Teamsters don't want this because they're likely to be the first ones to lose their jobs. It could be just the bipartisan bill Trump needs to cut down on some of the unwarranted criticism from the left.

    They could either withhold highway funds from states that allow robot trucks like they did back in the day to get their 55 mph speed limit, or simply ban them from participating in interstate commerce.
     
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  7. Mike

    Mike Well-Known Member Staff Member

    And just like how we ignored HOS rules, it needs to be addressed in the appropriate fashion. Attacking someone who is taking advantage of a market that has been opened up is our free market system at work.

    If you want to fight it, go after the people who are allowing for this technology to enter the industry, not the guy who is taking advantage of an opportunity that is in front of him.

    I don't like the technology, but it's likely coming unless legal action can stop it. Seems counterproductive to go after a person like this who might be able to better inform us. He didn't introduce this concept to us, he is simply jumping on an opportunity. If he doesn't do it, somebody else will.

    Millions shop at, work for, or do business with Walmart. They destroyed small businesses everywhere on their way up the food chain.

    Google is at the forefront of this technology. They made it a reality with cars, and their technology is helping to make it available with trucks. They even have their own autonomous truck, Waymo. Are we going to see the trucking industry revolt against Google? No, we aren't. 99.9% of you will continue to depend on Google even though they are taking steps that may destroy this industry as we know it.

    What's the difference between this guy and Google? He is at least coming and speaking directly to us.
     
  8. Injun

    Injun Rabid Squaw Staff Member Supporter

    Whoever takes advantage of such an opportunity needs to understand the consequences of their choices, especially when it affects millions of people in a direct and detrimental way.
     
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  9. Alvaro Aranda

    Alvaro Aranda Member

    Awesome! I am excited to see what the future brings! Keep up the research & development!
     
  10. Alvaro Aranda

    Alvaro Aranda Member


    So you are against development of technology because this is a threat to loosing your job? Let's not stay behind in technology. When the world changes you need to adapt to the changes, not the other way around.
     
  11. Duck

    Duck Quack Supporter

    Um, yes... Duhh. :bonk:
    What the rest of the world does is their problem. Not ours. It's why we haven't fully adapted the metric system, given up our guns, and are fighting tooth and nail against a socialist health care system.

    Sitting idly by or even encouraging the development of technology that is being created for the sole purpose of killing millions of jobs is just plain stupid.
     
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  12. Mike

    Mike Well-Known Member Staff Member

    So this guy should step aside, in a free market system, and let the powers of Google, Uber, Amazon, UPS, Nikola Motors, and everyone else who is already big time billionaire companies just get bigger?

    Again, this guy is coming here to share knowledge with us, unlike any of the above companies. It should make for great debate and productive discussion.

    Just like the ELD situation, everyone in this industry went right up to the 11th hour complaining about it and turning every discussion about it into something completely negative. Now, at the last minute, everyone scrambles to actually learn about the systems and the best options available.

    There is ample room on the forum for the creation of threads to discuss how bad autonomy is for the industry. We don't need every thread to be that, though. At some point, we need to gain knowledge about this stuff.

    I, for one, don't plan on being pushed aside by technology. I plan on learning exactly how it will change the industry and how I can adapt to be productive within it. I have too many years of work left in me to just step aside in defeat.
     
  13. Injun

    Injun Rabid Squaw Staff Member Supporter

    Fair enough. I will simply observe the discussion here and keep my peace.
     
  14. ironpony

    ironpony Well-Known Member Supporter

    @Mike is absolutely correct. We are on the edge of a revolution in how many tasks are done - tasks that today provide good jobs and food on the table. I posted something about this last year, with little and negative response from all y'all. Now its hitting home. There have been amazing strides in the field of Artificial Intelligence recently. These guys have a very good chance of bringing self driving heavy trucks to market, that do an excellent job of moving freight down the road, displacing the people now doing this job. If these trucks are reliable and safe, we can be assured of a future that will be quite different.

    Let's be real. While these trucks may decrease the number of deaths on the road, this is not the motivational force behind deploying this technology. Plain and simple, its money.

    I read a report last year that as many as 40 million jobs may be eliminated through automation in the next 20 years, both blue collar and white collar.

    NPR Marketplace had a piece on ATMs yesterday - they've been around for 50 years now. Until recently they were just a convenience - if you didn't have your weekend cash before 4 PM on Friday, you weren't going to be doing much - before the widespread use of ATMs in the 70s.

    In the last 10 years, banks have started to deploy internet connected advanced ATMs. Everything you can do with smart phone banking and a cash dispencer. Cool, huh? Increasingly, they're walling up teller lanes, and installing one of these things in the place of a person. Despite an increase in numbers of branch banking locations nationwide, the numbers of persons employed as bank tellers has decreased by 100,000 over the last decade.

    Its just a PC... no brains. You don't have to pay it. It doesn't get sick - often.

    The point is, we are facing a revolution in employment, that will change society. Legislation banning robots isn't going to fly, because really big money is involved. We have an opportunity to shape what that future holds in store for us, and our children if we start talking about it now.

    These guys and their robotical truck, are not demons. AI is a force that will reshape who we are, what we do and how we live.

    We're all going to have to adapt to this. Good jobs with above average pay will become increasingly hard to find. I think reeducation is going to be involved for different jobs, if one wants to stay ahead of it. There will be new kinds of jobs, and many old ones will have less participation or disappear.

    40 million displaced workers is a lot for the economy to absorb. How we go forward without totally disrupting people lives is something that we and our children are going to have to deal with.
     
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  15. krelithous

    krelithous Prius hater Supporter

    wonders who would be held accountable if a trucks computer does screw up and it runs someone over. since manufactures don't want to assume that responsibility!!! i think the software manufacture or the truck manufacture should be held liable. it would be like if i had a robot and i told it to go blow ones head off then i should be held responsible for it's actions!!!
     
  16. ironpony

    ironpony Well-Known Member Supporter

    Probably the airline model will be used... sue everyone involved.
     
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  17. Duck

    Duck Quack Supporter

    Hopefully.

    Sue the owners, sue the manufacturer, sue the individual nerd who developed the software, sue the individual nerd who designed the hardware, sue the broker who loaded a robot truck, sue the shipper who loaded a robot truck, sue the insurance company for insuring a robot truck, and sue the politicians who allowed it to operate on public streets.

    Then sue their lawyers for defending them. ;)
     
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  18. krelithous

    krelithous Prius hater Supporter

    though the one good thing about these robots is that the carriers would have to keep them well maintained:rolleyes: beca
    there's tons of $$$ money to made in ( machine learning );). and there prob will be over the next 10-20 years!!! what machine learning is machines being able to teach themselves:stare1:. the way that we code and train the robots machines puters now is that we have to tell them every little thing. the problem with that is when the machine goes out into the real world things like autonomous cars and trucks theres simply millions or billions of situations that can happen ones that you wouldn't even imagine that can happen to come up with what the response should be. once we start employing machines out in the real world they have to be able to learn on there own!!! sure they have to be given a failure but what defines a failure and what defines a success:confused-96:. then they need to go out and learn how to do things so that they get success and not failures. right now machine learning is huge!!!

    look at tesla and there auto pilot. those cars are machine learning everythings run from a cloud based server connected to teslas sofware. and the cars all talk amongst each other as well!!!
    everyday the cars get better and better because the cars talk to each other and learn from each other. now think about it we as people could never code in that many situations
     
  19. krelithous

    krelithous Prius hater Supporter

    just think. notice how they never talk about things like what if the trucks or 4 wheelers have to make choices on who to kill in certain situations:confused-96:. i can't figure out how self driving anything is safer than a human behind the wheelo_O:headscratch2::crash::dunno:. just imagine if the brakes gave out:eek:, this tech is complete bullshit. i can see robots and automation in factories resturaunts ect ect but not on the roads. they also don't mention that they never tell you that the vehicles will have to process on who to kill wheres a human can react on that faster than the computer
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  20. krelithous

    krelithous Prius hater Supporter

    what information are they going to collect on the customers and what about privacy rights:confused-96:. and can we opt out if one doesn't want to share the data they collect:confused-96:. it's interesting that 6 million accidents are caused by people on there smart phones!!! when computers fail they tend to fail spectaculary. humans tend to pick up on things before they get out of hand:rolleyes:. what about things like going up hills wich can block a cameras view:confused-96:. what happens with things like light colored vehicles and the computer not being able to see them against a bright sky:confused-96::dunno:. i think that this self driving tech also encourages bad behaviors such as things like screwing off on ones smartphone tablet even watching a portable dvd playero_O. it's funny how mericans have this psychological mentality that there self driving what ever is going to save there lives:coocoo::biglaugh::rolllaugh3:
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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